Windows 95 Img Dosbox Ware
My father is currently using an old Windows 95 machine circa 1999 to run a DOS program which he uses to bill the government. Buying a new program is not really an option because all the modern software currently available are licenced at at least $1000 per annum (he bought this program for a one time fee of $500). We're worried about this machine because of its age, so a hardware failure is inevitable (I'm just surprised the hard drive hasn't failed yet), so we're looking into transplanting the software into a new machine. Whatever solution we use, there MUST be support for this DOS program, plus support for a floppy drive (the claims are submitted to the government via floppy disks. Lo-tech, I know, but that's the government for you). I was looking into DOSBox. I'll try running the program in my Vista laptop, just to see if it works.
This is a suboptimal solution, however, because it requires a Windows licence, which is pricey (I was planning on building a very low cost desktop for under $300 with parts sourced from Newegg with bare minimum specs, and a Windows XP retail licence would almost be the same cost as the machine itself). Another option is FreeDOS. I have no experience with FreeDOS, but I was doing some research, and apparently, large hard disks and USB are not supported. This might be a problem, because in case of a hard drive failure in the future (say 3-5 years down the road), it may not be possible to find a drive small enough that FreeDOS supports (what with hard drive sizes constantly increasing). Also, the lack of USB support might be a problem in finding input peripherals that are PS/2 (also, do new motherboards generally come with PS/2 connectors? Haven't build a PC since high school).
Another point about the lack of USB support is that depending on which motherboard I buy, I may be forced to use an external USB floppy drive. Are there are any another options I'm missing? It's a native DOS program.
In other words, we launch it directly from Windows 95, but it can also be run from DOS (we just haven't set it up that way). It needs to write to a floppy directly (the program assumes there's a disk in the A: drive, and writes there. There's no way I can tell of directing the program to write to another location).
I can ask the Ministry of Health if they will accept USB keys, but probably not, due to logistical reasons. We don't get the floppies back that we submit to them. With regards to USB floppy drives, I assume VirtualBox supports them, and will abstract them to the guest OS, also allowing me to specify it as the A: drive? A virtual machine seems like the best option. I'll probably go with VirtualBox running under Ubuntu (just because it's the distro I'm the most familiar with, and it seems like the most user-friendly, which is important because my mother is the one who actually enters and processes claims for my father), but at the moment, I'm trying to get the program running in VirtualBox on my Mac, just to see if this is feasible (before I spend the money to build a new box).
I don't want to image the computer we're using right now, because there's a lot of Windows 95 cruft on there that's affecting stability. I acquired a copy of MS-DOS 6.2 off the Internet (which was very hard to find, by the way), and tried to install it in VirtualBox (on my Mac), but the installer asked for Disk 1, after which I couldn't proceed any further. The copy of DOS I got is just a 13MB image file (.iso). Circuitmaker 2000 torrent file. If I could find a listing on the Internet about which files go on which disk, could I just split up the image file into 10 seperate image files, would the DOS installer treat those separate image files as individual disks? Is it possible for VirtualBox to allow the installation of a guest OS through more than one image file?
I'll probably try FreeDOS next. My issue with large hard disks won't be a problem, because I'll be using a virtual machine, so the hardware will be abstracted (another benefit to the virtual machine option.
Thanks for suggesting it, I didn't consider it before. This basically makes the installation hardware-independent). Printing support would be nice, but it's not necessary. We used to make printouts of all our claims submissions, but over time, we realized that's not necessary. Unfortunately not, all the files are in the root directory, and not sorted into different folders. It's alright though, I've decided to try out FreeDOS, because it's 100% compatible with MS-DOS, so should suit my needs.
I ran into a problem with the Enhanced FDISK portion of the installer. After I set up the partition (I set one partition to take up the whole virtual disk), I pressed F3 to exist EFDISK. It said you have to restart the system, so I pressed Enter.
It just hung on that screen, and VirtualBox refuses to restart the guest machine. I had to force the VM to shutdown.
When I restarted the VM, it said invalid OS and wouldn't boot up. I was looking into DOSBox.
I'll try running the program in my Vista laptop, just to see if it works. This is a suboptimal solution, however, because it requires a Windows licence, which is pricey (I was planning on building a very low cost desktop for under $300 with parts sourced from Newegg with bare minimum specs, and a Windows XP retail licence would almost be the same cost as the machine itself). I know you're probably leaning Ubuntu for several reasons, but if you're buying from Newegg, there's absolutely no reason to buy the XP (or Vista) retail license. They have OEM licenses relatively cheap. If you still have your Win95 license key, you can just install 95 to a VM. What I missed in your story: doesn't the DOS program 'just' run under windows xp or vista like under windows95?
I don't know, I always kind of assumed that it wouldn't work under Vista, because DOS hasn't been the underpinnings of Windows since the Windows ME days, and I always had problems getting DOS programs to run even in XP. I never tried running this program in Vista, but I assumed it wouldn't work.
Besides, the writing's on the wall for DOS programs with respect to new versions of Windows supporting them. Virtualization is the best solution, because it means I can continue running this particular piece of software well, well, well into the future, regardless of changes in the underlying hardware. Why am I not buying an OEM copy of XP as long as I'm buying the hardware from Newegg?
Because OEM copies of Windows are tied to the motherboard, and can't be installed on a new machine in case of a major unforeseen circumstance, such as the computer getting stolen, or my house burning down (or even something less fantastical, such as the motherboard failing). That means a retail copy of XP is a better solution, because then I can install it on any successors to the computer I'm planning on building shortly. If the computer dies, it's no big deal, because I can always install my retail copy of XP on a replacement computer. Can't do that with an OEM copy of XP. However, retail copies of XP are prohibitively expensive, which is why I was leaning towards Linux. I'm trying to future proof as much as possible.
I'd like to continue using this software as long as the Ministry of Health supports it (for various reasons. Mostly because my mother is very comfortable with it, because it's cheap to run, and it has a comparative advantage over newer programs we've tested out with regards to speed and efficiency of entering claims). A virtual machine seems like the best way to do that. It's late where I am right now, so I'll leave the hard part for tomorrow, which is transferring the program to the virtual machine. The computer it's installed on has no access to the Internet (it doesn't even have a network card, though it does have a dial-up modem), nor does it have a CD burner, so I think the only option is a USB key. I'll report here with the results. It's late where I am right now, so I'll leave the hard part for tomorrow, which is transferring the program to the virtual machine.
The computer it's installed on has no access to the Internet (it doesn't even have a network card, though it does have a dial-up modem), nor does it have a CD burner, so I think the only option is a USB key. I'll report here with the results. Many version of Win95 don't support USB keys, and if they do they need an extra driver, so good luck with that.
If you need to future proof, DOS is the easy part. Almost every new PC still works fine in real-mode DOS. And big hard disks won't be problems either. You can easily make a bootable DOS CD-Rom, which loads everything into a RAM disk. Or alternatively use a CF-IDE adapter and CF cards as hard disk substitutes.
The bigger issue is the floppy. As long as you can still buy new floppy drives and motherboards continue to ship with FDD connectors you'll be fine. Otherwise you probably need to get a USB floppy drive and hope the BIOS USB floppy emulation is up to scratch. If it isn't, you can still workaround that by using floppy image files and then dumping the image file to a real floppy with something like dd or rawrite. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a 'new personal computer.'
Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from one computer to another. Therefore, if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required. This is true even if the computer is covered under Software Assurance or other Volume License programs. If it fails because of a defect (perhaps not because you overclocked it, failed to clean out the dust regularly or even just from normal wear and tear!) then you still have a valid license. Otherwise, you must get a new license. If your hardware gets stolen, then you're pretty clearly SOL. 14.Can I transfer my upgrade (VUP Version Upgrade, CUP Competitive Upgrade, PUP Product Upgrade, UA Upgrade Advantage, SA Software Assurance) operating system licenses from an old PC to a new one?
A customer had an older machine that came pre-installed with MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 and the customer then acquired a Windows 98 upgrade license via the Academic Select Program. If the customer decided to donate the machine to a charity, could he or she remove Windows 98 from that machine and then transfer the Windows 98 upgrade license to a different machine within their organization? Under Academic Select and Academic Open, operating system upgrade licenses are tied to the machines on which they are first installed.
If a customer acquires an upgrade license via one of those programs and then installs that upgrade on a given machine, the upgrade license is then tied to that machine and may not be transferred to another machine, regardless of whether or not the upgraded software is removed from the original machine. Upgrades are simply product upgrades to the original license. They do not constitute new licenses in themselves. So be careful what PCs you use your volume licenses on!
(Hint: all volume Windows license are upgrade licenses). Originally posted by hestermofet: I can ask the Ministry of Health if they will accept USB keys, but probably not, due to logistical reasons. We don't get the floppies back that we submit to them. Have you actually talked to anyone there about all of this? I know that some government agencies still use stuff like this, just a couple of years ago I was supporting an MS-DOS 6 machine running a piece of software for another agency and they didn't have any upgrade yet.
But if the person receiving these floppies is as tired of getting them as they should be they might be willing to work something out with you to provide another solution. Originally posted by hestermofet: I can ask the Ministry of Health if they will accept USB keys, but probably not, due to logistical reasons. We don't get the floppies back that we submit to them. Have you actually talked to anyone there about all of this? I know that some government agencies still use stuff like this, just a couple of years ago I was supporting an MS-DOS 6 machine running a piece of software for another agency and they didn't have any upgrade yet. But if the person receiving these floppies is as tired of getting them as they should be they might be willing to work something out with you to provide another solution. Small USB keys are cheap enough now not to worry about not getting them back.
4 gig can be had for $6 on Amazon. You only need 1MB so I'm sure you'd be able to buy them in bulk from somewhere for less than that. There are definitely limits to how cheap you can be with this. Dosbox itself is just about free - the only cost being your time. I would also suggest using dosbox if you can - for the simple reason it is designed to also slow down your machine. You don't want to be running on effectively a 2 gigahertz 486. You want to be running on a 66MHz 486, regardless of what your underlying hardware is.
Dosbox probably won't support USB but there's nothing stopping you just copying the files from your windows filesystem to USB by hand. Originally posted by hestermofet:I can ask the Ministry of Health if they will accept USB keys, but probably not, due to logistical reasons. I'm assuming you're talking about the Ontario MOHLTC since your tribus is Mississauga? I work for the gov't and sometimes do stuff with Smart Systems for Health/eHealth and MOHLTC. What is it you have to submit by floppy? Do they not have any transition plans?
I know they're kind of behind when it comes to modernization overall, but this seems to be outragious even by our standards. Where do you even buy floppies these days anyway? I'm submitting OHIP billing claims.
I know they support electronic submission, but my program doesn't support that. They still maintain the floppy disk system for holdouts like myself. I ran into a problem with VirtualBox.
I bought an external USB floppy drive, but no matter what I do, I can't get VirtualBox (under OSX) to find it. It won't mount under the Floppy drive section, and if I enable USB devices, it doesn't find it under there. It might be a problem with OSX though, because OSX recognizes it as a regular removable drive, and doesn't specify it as a floppy drive, whereas Vista does. I'm going to try it under Vista now. Unfortunately, Virtual PC isn't an option, because it won't run on Home versions of XP or Vista (I do have a Vista Business laptop, but it's my own personal laptop, and would prefer if my dad didn't use it for business).
Windows 95 Img Dosbox Ware 7
Originally posted by hestermofet: because it means I can continue running this particular piece of software well, well, well into the future, regardless of changes in the underlying hardware. Unless, of course, the agency you're dealing with decides to finally quit supporting you. Have they announced any plans for ending floppy support yet? If the program will run under XP or Vista directly, just do that. Vista is still going to be supported for several more years.
If you can still use floppies in another, worry about virtualization then, if necessary. Originally posted by hestermofet: Virtual PC isn't an option, because it won't run on Home versions of XP or Vista (I do have a Vista Business laptop, but it's my own personal laptop, and would prefer if my dad didn't use it for business). AFAIK, VPC works fine on the Home versions it's just not supported by MS. I pretty much stopped using VPC when they bought it from Connectix and essentially murdered it so I really haven't used it much then expect for quick comparisons. (I haven't tried it on the Home versions but according to the VPC newsgroup it works). VPC doesn't work on Intel OSX though so you'll only be able to use Qemu/Vmware/Parallels there. RUNNING IT IN NTVDM IN WINDOWS NTVDM has it's own problems.especially in Vista.
If you plan on running this program in Windows NTVDM then don't bother with Vista. Definetly use Windows XP. (You maybe able to get it working in Vista but you'll need to install Windows XP video drivers and I've experienced a loss of compatibility with Vista's NTVDM compared to XP's). In XP you may experience an issue where the cpu usage for NTVDM will be up to 99%, there are some free utilities which can take care of this but TAME is a nice utility (requires $$). If you want to buy a laptop the Dell Latitude D505,D510,D520,D820 all have floppy drive options. I believe the D630 can too but I'm not sure on that. Not sure about the new E series.
DOSBOX If OSX recognizes the floppy drive and you can actually access the files in OSX then you should be able to execute DOSBox and mount the floppy drive in DOSBox. You'll likely need to quit DOSBox before removing the floppy every time though since when it's mounted it's probably still counted as accessing it. Any Linux system + Qemu or Virtualbox. There is no need to have any floppy drives, really. Virtualbox has a nice GUI for everything, but I like Qemu because I use DOS-stuff for development (legacy hardware) and whatnot.
Virtualbox is a free download from Sun Microsystems and it will run on Windows, Linux, and Solaris. Maybe OS X, not sure. A example qemu session goes like this:.
make a directory in my home directory to contain the various files. Download freedos cdrom (iso) or floppy image (img) file to that directory. Use Qemu-img to create a raw image: qemu-img create harddrive.img 200M. Launch Qemu and install Freedos to drive image: qemu -cdrom fdfullcd.iso -hda harddrive.img or qemu -fda balder10.img -hda harddrive.img - If you have existing floppies you just stick them into your pc and use the 'dd' utility to make images of them. (be sure to right click and umount the floppy image on your desktop since the drive needs to be not-in-use when using it in a VM) like such: dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy.img Then you can use those images in your qemu image and save wear and tear (and vastly improve performance) over using the floppy directly. If you prefer to use the floppy directly you can launch qemu like: qemu -fda /dev/fd0 -hda harddrive.img Then it will read and write directly to the physical floppy.
Also this will work with removable devices like USB flash drives. This way you can have a easy way to move files from the virtual machine to the real world. You simply point Qemu at the raw device file and it will set up your usb drive to be a IDE drive for the virtual machine, requiring no drives in DOS. Like I said; Virtualbox has lots more features and has nice GUI stuff for it, but It's not like I am going to post dozens of screenshots here to explain how it works.